Season 3, Episode 9: Navigating Pregnancy & Motherhood with IBS

Welcome back to The Gut Show! I'm your host, Erin Judge, and I'm so excited for today's episode because we have my team dietician here at Gutivate, Lindsey Davis! Lindsey is a registered dietitian and she has been with Gutivate for the past year. As part of our practice, she works one to one with clients who are dealing with IBS, motility disorders like gastroparesis, and even GERD. She also specializes in disordered eating and eating disorders so she helps a lot of our patients who are struggling with that overlap of eating disorders, and IBS. as well as SIBO, and things like that.

In this conversation Lindsay and I are talking about motherhood and IBS. So like myself, Lindsay also has struggled with IBS as part of her own journey a nd that's what led her to her work that she does today but she also has a unique experience with IBS that I have not experienced, and that is pregnancy and motherhood. And so she's talking about some of just the real conversations around what happens when you're pregnant, what happens when you deliver, and even what things look like in terms of managing your own health as you are a mother or being a parent, so anyone who is thinking about potentially having a child one day or even struggling with just demands that maybe come from their career or their responsibilities, or any parent that is going to be involved in raising children and taking care of kids as well as managing their own symptoms, this conversation will be great for you. So enjoy the conversation and then connect with us after at The Gut Community if you have any questions or thoughts that you want to share!

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Erin Judge: Hey, Lindsey, so excited that you're here! If you guys are not familiar with Lindsey, she is one of the team dietitians at Gutivate, and she's been with us for over a year as of our recording. I’m so excited to have you on the podcast officially and finally in front of our community!

Lindsey Davis: I know I'm so happy to be here! Yeah, so I've been here a little bit over a year and I'm so excited to get to talk our gut community that follows us so regularly. Just excited to have a chance to talk today!

Erin Judge: Yeah, absolutely. And so those of you who do follow along on Instagram, Lindsey is seen over on our Gutivate Instagram page more frequently but we don't hear a lot about Lindsay's actual story, so we're going to dig deeper into that today and talk a little bit about being a dietitian in this space. It's an open conversation about that if you guys are not familiar with that. So as we get started, Lindsey, share a little bit about how you became a dietitian, why you gained an interest in the GI space and what led you to your position now?

Lindsey Davis: I'll just start at the very beginning just to give you a whole picture of how it all came together. Excuse me, the change in weather has made my voice a little bit hoarse as the weather in Nashville can't decide what it's going to do, if it's going to be cold or hot! So I was actually diagnosed with IBS D, when I was 12. They did originally think I had Crohn's disease but through the gamut of tests that are run, obviously, everything came back quote, unquote, normal so I was just given the the diagnosis of IBS D. But in that time I developed a lot of fear around food. So if you can imagine like being 12, and going to slumber parties, and you know, playdates and all the things but having episodes of diarrhea, and so I really, really began to restrict food, and I kind of came to about five to seven, what I would call my safe foods that I would eat that wouldn't cause an episode is kind of what I called it. And that, you know, it was a protective measure that I did for myself, because I was given not very much information, once given the diagnosis of IBS D and how to manage it. It was just sort of like, this is what you have, okay, good luck.

That restriction and fear of food morphed into an eating disorder and it was very much anorexia. I had that for nine years towards, you know, in high school, it did sort of morph into a binge and purge type thing, because I just got hungry, but still had that disordered view of food and fear of food in itself. So I actually ended up going to a residential treatment facility for eating disorders, and it changed my life, and part of that transformation was working with the dietician there which really created this freedom for me in terms of not viewing food as the enemy. And so I left that facility saying, I'm going to become a dietitian, I'm going to be that source of light and hope for other people. And so that was kind of my morph into the field. And then, you know, I didn't necessarily get to work with that population for a while, but then came to Gutivate. And both of my just wonderful worlds collided, and now I get to work with both, well, actually the exact population that I wanted to! But also side note, my IBS has now morphed into, I keep saying morph, but my IBS has changed to IBS C now, since becoming a mother, it has changed to very, very severe IBS C. So lots of things, lots of layers. But that's my story!

Erin Judge: That's awesome! And the change and morph, I guess, that yeah, a lot of people and it's always this confusing piece, especially when you've been diagnosed as a child, like hormones and change and just it's so fascinating and I think we still have so much to learn about why that even happens because it doesn't always make sense and so it is interesting that you've experienced that and a lot of people have, and if you guys don't know, Lindsay is our dietitian that does see our eating disorder clients here at Gutivate. So those with histories of eating disorder, current eating disorders, or even just more significant disordered eating and needing a bit more support in that area, which is fine and okay, and normal to need that, because there's a lot of, again, layers to IBS, and how that can impact your relationship with food and we've talked about it throughout the season on the podcast, but Lindsey has special interest in that so she helps a lot of clients with that, which is so special and important!

So let's talk about motherhood and that piece. So as one of those with IBS like, yes, a lot of us become dietitians because of our personal story, and, you know, there's empathy with that and it's so special and important. But you have a unique viewpoint on your life with IBS that I don't have as someone who's not a mother, and so tell me more about that. Like, you know, what happened whenever you were maybe preparing to have kids or just kind of where did that begin? And what was that like having IBS? Kind of on your mind and like, in your body, if you will?

Lindsey Davis: Yeah, it's a part of you. So I think just having the awareness beforehand, and knowing it was pretty much IBS C, it had made its transition before, but it just kind of got worse after, but just having that awareness and knowing, okay, this is probably going to be affected by pregnancy. The awareness that when you are pregnant constipation is common, because you have a human being that is sitting amongst your organs, moving things around, and, you know, so just knowing that and being able to communicate ahead of time with, with my doctors of like, okay, this is something I struggle with, and navigating different supplements, like I did become anemic, so needing to take iron, but also knowing that iron can have a constipating effect. And so just communicating openly and being okay with bringing in those extra tools, like at Gutivate, we really talk about, we help clients figure out their baseline toolkit for IBS, and then also like, our additional toolkit for when the baselines are not cutting it. And in pregnancy and motherhood, sometimes the baseline, it won't cut it for a time, you know, and so being okay with bringing in added tools or added support, and knowing what those added tools are is really helpful. So a lot of grace, and a lot of self compassion is needed and because when you don't have kids, and I don't want to be one of those people that's like, I don't know, you don't have kids, like you have all the time in the world to do you know, what you need to do when you need to do it. We are all stressed, the world has so much pressure on every single one of us, so this not what I'm, I'm not coming from that perspective at all, but there is a sense of not having tiny people depend on you for every one of their needs and you have a little bit of more autonomy in how your schedule is dictated and actually how money is spent or how you know, things like that. And you may have more freedom in your budget. And so navigating those changes when kids come requires a lot of self compassion, because you put forth a lot of effort to take care of yourself but inevitably, curveballs are going to be thrown at you and giving yourself grace in those moments is so important and not letting it push you into a screw it mentality.

Erin Judge: Yeah, that's a hard one. I think even without IBS we see that happen, a lot of mothers will come out and speak about that of how they, not necessarily, I don't like that phrase of like, let yourself go, but I think let go of the things that serve yourself for like self care kind of goes out the window. And I think that balance is such a tricky part where everyone finds it differently or doesn't find it at all. And it just depends on you know, supports in your life, resources, personalities, maybe even or the child, the human being itself, who might be one way or another. Like there's so many pieces to that, that I think set up really interesting expectations of moms specifically.

I want to talk about something in pregnancy first before we get into like having a baby, that's a lot to that too, but one question that I've heard people kind of bring this up like with talking to clients and I'd love your perspective is body dysmorphia. So you come from not only IBS, which comes with body dysmorphia, right? One day, you're bloated one day, you're not you're having diarrhea, you're severely constipated, your body's not working the ways it’s supposed to and you know, no matter what that person says I think we all have that form of dysmorphia, which is where we feel different in our bodies, it looks different, like, there's this feeling of we're not at home or like our bodies aren't what they're supposed to be. And so there's that feeling of like, my pants don't fit but yesterday they did fit, and why do they not fit? Or like, I'm looking at myself in the mirror and like, I look okay, but I feel terrible or, you know, it's like that's that dysmorphia.

How did that impact you during pregnancy? I've always been interested in, because you hear, I think, as someone who has not been pregnant before, sometimes I hear people talk about pregnancy as this like glorious thing of like, you know, showing off their belly and being so excited. And I think about it from an IBS perspective, where it's like, well, I've looked six months pregnant before and like, I was not very excited to just show that off, or like, it doesn't feel very comfortable. Like how did that impact you. or like, was it even a thought? Like, what did that look like?

Lindsey Davis: Yeah. Well, I'll start by saying, I've had two children and neither time was I the woman that was like, I feel my most beautiful when I am pregnant, oh, I just glow and I just felt no, no, I, it was not that way for me! I was very sick and had a lot of symptoms. But the body dysmorphia piece, again, it definitely shows up 100%, it shows up. And I go back to if you've got IBS and you know that that is sort of something that you struggle with or it is a part of you in some way, knowing that on the forefront and communicating that with other people, the people around you, your support system, communicating that with them and saying, I'm about to go on this journey where my body's gonna change a lot and so I'm probably going to have times that I struggle, and I'm going to need you in those moments to help speak truth to me, help me navigate that dysmorphia, help me navigate the thoughts I'm having, and be a sort of landing point, a foundation that I can come back to. So for me, that was my husband, but it can also be a mom, a sister, a friend. But communicating before, and having that support system ready for when it inevitably comes up, because it won't be as scary if you're like, okay, here it is, but I'm not alone.

Erin Judge: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's true of like really anything with IBS, right? It's like, trying to pretend like something's not there, like, hide it or cover it up. Like, it doesn't work. And we've all been there, we're like, oh, I'm fine. I'm completely fine. I think there's a difference between like positive thinking and mantras which we use at Gutivate right, we love affirmations, because we know the power of the mind and like belief, and all of that is so important. But there's a very big difference between like an affirmation and a mantra and of changing your beliefs, but also trying to ignore and become naïve, because you can't just say, my gut is gonna be completely fine, no matter what I do, like it's going to be perfect, and you have no support systems in place, then all of a sudden, it falls apart, and then you're just disappointed and frustrated and more angry and so that's an interesting point that that would also translate to pregnancy.

Lindsey Davis: And one other thing I'll say, or two quick ones. One, so therapy is a big part of my self care, if it is a part of your self care, have your therapist you know onboard beforehand, if it's not, maybe become established with one before, so that you've developed a rapport and then when it comes up, you have that person to talk about it with and then two, the body dysmorphia piece with IBS, it's a little bit different or it was for me personally, because when you're pregnant, there is a tiny human in there that you do love and so although your body's changing, it's not you know, or you feel bloated, it's not just gas, right? It's not just air or poop there's a human in there, so there's this, I was able to sort of ride the wave of dysmorphia a little bit better because I knew like this child that I want to have is in there growing

Erin Judge: Yeah, yeah. Did you ever get mad at the child that was in you for also causing you constipation?

Lindsey Davis: For sure. For sure! And I want to say this loud and clear, not enjoying pregnancy and loving that child that is in you can coexist. You can not enjoy what is happening in your body, you can not enjoy it and love that child at the exact same time. So there were many times I was like, okay, well think about my first child Whit, like, so glad you're growing and healthy, but like, I would love to go to the bathroom today. Like, please could just scoot over, could we do something so I can go.

Erin Judge: That's really funny, I can't imagine that, you already feel that way, like your body. I feel like there's so much hyper awareness with IBS, which is where that tricky line of eating disorders comes into play as hyper awareness can be a positive, where you're aware of what your body's saying, you're taking care of your body, you're like, you're really in tune with it, I call it kind of my grateful side of like, it's to be present, be mindful, you know, make choices that really work for me with energy and just how I feel and overall health, like it's a good thing. But then there's also that fine line between that awareness also creates some, you know, disruption and you become obsessive about it and I think that's interesting. Pregnancy, I think probably does the same thing where your body is changing, there's a lot happening, which probably for some people creates this new awareness that was never there, especially going to the bathroom, you know, we see it in our practice, for a lot of those who've gone through pregnancy, then their symptoms come after and so it's this new thing, where not only is your body change, not only did you deliver a human being so then your entire life has changed but now like hormones, and like function of your body is changing. What did that look like for you? So like delivery and on, not even getting into like life disruption, change and adjustment, but with your body? Like what changed and what did you notice?

Lindsey Davis: Well, depends on how graphic you want me to get! But I'll speak to I mean that how the physical body changes, when you push a human out with shoulder blades and hips and a head and you push it out the likelihood that something perforates is pretty common. So what I'm saying is hemorrhoids after birth are common, I have them and with IBS C, that then creates an additional barrier, to deal with. So physically, my body changed in that, since, I know that is graphic, but I mean, we talk about poop all day, you know, this is what we're at.

Erin Judge: Just talk about it because then people, I even hear like, some people will be told to take you know, a laxative or stool softener right to the hospital with them. And if you've never experienced constipation, you may think like, well why is it a big deal? Like, does it matter? But it's like, no, we need to talk about what's actually happening and like what happened and like, this is something that's gonna make your body feel so much better, versus like you literally not being able to like push poop out of your body. Something bad can happen, because all of those muscles are completely destroyed, right for a minute, they need to repair. And so it is important to talk about it because people don't know what they're getting into and I think that I known is what makes things so scary. And those with IBS like, I've heard from so many women, like, you know, I don't want to have a baby like I'm terrified of getting pregnant. Like, you know, we see it in practice, people will come to us like, okay, this year, I want to get pregnant but I have to figure out all these things because they're so afraid of like, what's going to happen because you hear horror stories, but you don't hear like, no, this is what is normal, this can happen like prepare, right, you know, and so it is important to talk about and how did you prepare for that? Like did you know that going into your first pregnancy that that was gonna happen? Or was it more of a oh, okay, here we go and then your second pregnancy you were ready?

Lindsey Davis: Yes. Second pregnancy I was good to go. First pregnancy I was not. But I navigated it, it was okay. But you're right, so when you push the baby out, it call it your downstairs, your downstairs has to heal okay? And so, it is very normal and very common for women to need to take a stool softener in the days and possibly weeks after because even though you didn't push it out of that downstairs, it's all real close and it's affected. So that was a little tricky for me to navigate in that my eating disorder did involve the use of laxatives and so I've you know, ever since, you know, I've been in recovery for 13 years now, but I'm so like, I'm not going to take you know, this type or whatever and so, and the type I think we all recommend clients stay away from are stimulant laxatives

Erin Judge: I think that people listening may not understand that, like what is laxative abuse and like how can that overlap with an eating disorder because a lot of people may, I feel like you know, we see it more as eating disorders, them contributing to laxative abuse and then the last one would be is contributing to GI, but I'm guessing it can also work in reverse just like your food can where you are, you know, reliant on a stimulant laxatives and then that could actually contribute to an eating disorder even because it might spark those thoughts of like, cleaning out or clearing them out, you know, so hit on that a little bit of why that makes a difference

Lindsey Davis: The stimulant itself?

Erin Judge: Yeah, like, why is that a connection?

Lindsey Davis: Yeah, so, I think I've briefly mentioned it, but my eating disorder did kind of turn into a bulimia of sorts, with the use of laxatives as my way of purging versus throwing up, I was never able to do that. And the use of stimulant laxatives, a stimulant laxative, their mechanism of actions stimulates your peristalsis to increase and it then really initiates diarrhea, and it does, if taken, if you don't follow the directions on the box, if you take it in excess, it does lead to a cleaning out. And if used over time, that peristalsis does become dependent on that stimulant medication, so it will then not contract without you taking that medication. Thank goodness I did not get to the point where my intestines became fully dependent on it, through recovery I was able to regain my you know, it works on its own, it does take a lot of intention, but it does work on its own. But there are people who do become fully dependent and then have to have you know, colostomy bag or something like that. And that's really, really intense. But that's that's sort of how I used it and why we don't recommend people that come to us take them.

But the good news is that the hospital, if you go have a baby, they're not going to recommend you take a stimulant laxative, they're gonna recommend you take a stool softener and that works just fine. So I just kept boundaries around it, I told my husband, hey, I am going to take this, I need it so I can go, but these are the boundaries I'm setting around it. Just be a second person to keep me accountable. Although I knew I would keep myself accountable, but it's just always good to communicate it.

Erin Judge: Absolutely. With everything, it's good to communicate if you've got that support, and if you don't, find it or hiring a therapist to be that, but people are there for it. So making sure that no matter what you have that and if you're tiptoeing on that line where you're like, oh, I might be, we call it abuse, of like overusing, but even I think using those more than like once a week like that can quickly get into that line, whether it's you're intentionally doing that or not. And so that's where you definitely want to reach out to specialists like Lindsay and even like talking to your doctor, like just having those conversations, not go down that route because it is something that's going to be present, like you have to kind of keep boundaries around but you may not want to have to do that for the rest of your life. And it's just important to keep that function of the gut is functioning and healthy as possible.

Okay, so stool softeners, hemorrhoids, all the fun stuff. Your second delivery, did you do anything different to prepare for that? So maybe someone sitting that maybe is pregnant or planning to have a child and they're like, oh, no, that is new news to me, like what do I actually do about it? Did you learn anything different?

Lindsey Davis: More so it was, I don't want to just keep repeating but it was just comforting to not have that curveball thrown at me. So the awareness piece, and then knowing okay, I'm going to need these stool softeners, I did bring some with me to the hospital. I did have them at home because you know that the first time you come home with your baby, one, you're exhausted and two, then you're like, oh God, I have to go to CVS, like I need to go to CVS and get it! No, we're not gonna do that. Like I had everything at home ready for me so that transition was a lot smoother and a lot less stress inducing. So just, I would recommend if you have a stool softener that you like, bring it in your hospital bag, and then have some ready at home so you don't have to, I know your husband or whoever could go out and get it for you, but it's just one less thing you have to do when you get home.

Erin Judge: Yeah, absolutely. The toolkit! Have your tool kit ready to go back to! Have your toolkits, travel with them, keep them with you never know when you need them and just the peace of mind that they're there is always so helpful.

Okay, so let's get into like the life side of things. So that's a lot of more than physical, actual changes, and there's more to that, right, hormones change, there's no way to know, in pregnancy or even after delivery, how your body's going to change, like, yes, we see constipation more frequently during pregnancy. For some, it's like a welcome symptom they love, for some it's not fun at all, like some they don't even experience it so you never know. And then after delivery, some people, their hormones just kind of balance back out and it's back to normal. For some, it's completely different, their life changes and that's something that I think we need to continue talking about but it's not something that we can always accept so you kind of have to keep that self compassion and awareness, going to see what happens and then practice taking care of your body along the way, which is going to shift.

But when we're talking about a human being, so routines and things, you know, we talk about this a lot, we know that the perfect scenario for IBS is getting adequate sleep, moving your body consistently, stress management, so like allowing your brain to kind of, you know, release, allowing your nervous system to be more on that kind of parasympathetic, rest and digest side. Like, we know all of that is very important, consistent meals. Whenever you have a human being in, I mean, there's some other levels of this too, like maybe you know, your life is disrupted or changing and something else is controlling your schedule. What did that look for you as a before and after? And like, what did you learn through both of those experiences with both of your kids?

Lindsey Davis: Ah, um, I'm gonna say this, because I'll forget, if I don't, you were saying, you know, to the listeners who have not maybe have not had not been pregnant yet, they haven't reached that point there, what could they do to prepare, learn, or hone, or strengthen your self compassion skill prior to it. For me, it was more of something I'm doing now I'm like, oh, I really really stink at self compassion, which in itself is like not a compassionate statement, you know. But I'm trying to navigate that now, and my kids are five and three. So I would, I would really start strengthening that skill before. But in terms of like, just the life when we think immediately postpartum and those foundations, you know, that we talk about, that really, really matter to IBS, sleep is going to be disrupted. And I'm not talking disrupted in like, you're going to get up a couple nights a couple times to pee, like, you're going to probably get up for hours at a time to feed your little baby and that baby may be on, sometimes they have their days and nights mixed up. So they might sleep all day and then at night, they are just ready to go and so you have to, you know, work with that so your sleep is going to be just wildly disrupted, that in itself is gonna stress you out, because you then you know, they send you home with this baby and they're like, okay, keep him or her alive, you have no training ready, go! And that baby cries and does things and you just, you know, your stress is going to be higher.

I think the hardest thing meal wise is your hunger and fullness cues are off. Because your sleep is off you, everything is off. And so what I educate clients on is to one accept the things that you can't change in in this moment. Would it be awesome if you could get adequate sleep that is from the hours of like ten to six? Yes. But that's not going to happen right now, it's just not. It will, but you exerting effort to change that is going to be wasted energy. So there are some aspects that you can't change, some of those foundations, but there are some that you do have influence over. Meal schedule, meal timing, you do have the ability to, to change that. Stress management, you do have the ability to engage with that and help. Water intake, you can focus on that. Movement, probably not so much in those first few weeks, you know, three to six months, absolutely. But don't put pressure on yourself to get all those foundations back in place. Accept those that you can't change and then focus on the ones you can, that's what I say.

Erin Judge: Yeah, absolutely. And use your support along the way! And those, you know, sleep is so important and we bring that up because we typically start there, right? That's the foundation because your sleep impacts your hormones, which impacts your ques, which impacts your digestive function. And if you're not sleeping enough, and like getting good quality sleep, like your guts not going to work like it's meant to, so going back to the awareness of like knowing that can be helpful, because that's like, okay, I do need these extra supports, it doesn't mean that we're stuck here forever, it doesn't mean that my body is broken or something has completely changed it’s just, okay, right now, I need extra support that I maybe didn't need before. Maybe you know, you're probably not, I mean, yes, you can drink coffee.

Lindsey Davis: I did! Especially with the second one, I was like, something's got to give here, so I'm gonna need some caffeine.

Erin Judge: Yeah, so you just do what you got to do. But there's those pressures. So that's something to I think that is important is that being a human being right now there's pressures, and those pressures contribute to IBS, we see it right. Typically, our clientele and those who are living with IBS are in like, high pressure jobs, you know, parents to kids who, you know, they're trying to do everything that they can typically, you know, working full time taking care of children full time, and their house in their, their own life. And it's just all of these things. And we just see all this pressure of like, I've got to do this, I've got to do that, you know, we've got to do all these things. And then we see it with even IBS care, where you get people who are just like, You got to check, you got to check it off, get check it off, it's like that pressure creates all this extra stress. And then for Mother's, there's even more pressure, right of like, getting your body back, like that's a huge one, which is unnecessary, or even, you know, sleep schedules, and I'm sure there's even more to that I've never experienced that you hear about it and think that that you hear about it, because it's so true of like, you got to do this a certain way to get to breastfeed, you know, for this amount of time and you got to gain this weight hit these markers, and every visit, you know, you have to kind of have all of these different milestones and the baby's got to eat it. And you know, all these things.

Lindsey Davis: And it's all for some some reason we all tie it back to our worth. If we don't meet these things, then we inherently as human beings are worthless. Um, and I love that you brought it up, because something that did change for me between baby one and baby two is, you know, after my first child, I You do hear people, some people will be like sleep when the baby sleeps. If if, if the baby sleeps in the middle of day you sleep during the day. I did not do that. Because I was like, Well, my house is a mess. I'm home, you know, I'm on maternity leave. So I should be doing these things. So I did not rest. I didn't like I did not let myself rest. And with baby too. I 100% Every time that kid was asleep, I was asleep. What I mean, it could be all day. So I rested more I allowed myself to let go of some of that pressure. Because I saw that it just is not productive in any way, shape or form to hold on to. It. It's not. I think I use this phrase with our clients. We're not robots. We don't just we can't turn our on switch on and just go. We are humans that have limitations. And one realizing those limitations, accepting them embracing them honoring them is huge.

Erin Judge: Yeah, absolutely. But the hardest thing to do.

Lindsey Davis: So so hard is why I didn't do it.

Erin Judge: The first thing to let go of anyone's expectations and then even in that it's like oh, well then I need to let that expectation and like let go of the expectations. Yeah. How did that shift impact your gut? Did you notice any change in your IBS? Um, I'm just curious because I think I see it in clients who Do let go some of the pressure and it's like they're hoping better, or like, or they just feel more relaxed and like relaxation, like we talked about, like running training right now for a run. And a relaxed runner is a better runner to think like, Okay, I need to hold tight like, right? But yeah, more relaxed and like carefree are the better you run. And it's almost that same way with like life, right? The more relaxed you are, the better you function. Did you happen to notice that? Or was it just kind of chaos no matter what.

Lindsey Davis: No, I mean, it is chaos. But a good chaos. Um, I don't specifically remember. Like, my bowel movement schedule being better, but I do remember. I mean, very tangibly that I was more present with baby number like went in that postpartum and experience and I was more what you're saying relaxed, and I was. I don't remember the added pressure or stress of my body not necessarily working with me. Does that make sense? I remember, it became more fluid. And me and my body were not at odds. And and I was not fighting it. And it wasn't fighting me back. It was more of like we've embraced each other for where we are. Yes. Weird, but it was just and so I would assume there's a lot of brain fog that comes with the postpartum. So but I would, I would imagine that my movements were better because I was in a more relaxed mindset.

Erin Judge: Yeah, yeah. And you're giving your body what your body needs. Thanks. Yeah, if we can override our body's needs, and especially in postpartum I think it's even more significant because not only are your needs higher because you aren't getting enough sleep. And you know, there's that side of it, where it's like, okay, I'm learning things so like your brains tired. You're also physically tired but you also just had a human being you grew it had it we overlook it so often, like significant event that the body goes through like significant I think they compare it what's like running a marathon or something of like the mountain climbing mountain climb, yeah, exerted, it's like so intense. And then you have tissue not necessarily damaged but great is kind of damaged like your tissues need to repair all the muscles of the pelvic floor. And they can only do so much like they have to they stretch out they have to come back together and repair like, you know your organs a bit.

Lindsey Davis: I see a pelvic floor physical therapist now. It’s kind of part of the journey.

Erin Judge: Yeah, you have to write it's like getting muscle like abdominal muscle muscles together and re coordinate. Like, there's so much as to happen like because their body changes so much like we can't expect the body to just like, go back to what it was supposed to do. And a lot of times it will overcompensate if we do that, and that's like more, you have to see a pelvic floor physical therapist forever. And so it's just so interesting when you give your body what it needs, which may not always look like what you think you may think it's like, oh, well, my body needs exercise my body and I see us with IBS, it's like, oh, my body needs to like work out every day so that I can, you know, feel slim or look good, right? It's like we have the that thought, but it's what your body really needs asleep. Like what your body actually needs is not working out right now we're all working out is like recovery and breath. Like sometimes we think our body needs like, you know, to check the boxes, that's like your body actually needs you to just slow down for a stop checking the boxes for that. Yeah, or like work hard when you feel good. Because of that fear of feeling bad. It's a goal. If you overwork yourself, then you're gonna feel bad. So there's like, all these things that just are so counterintuitive to what we think. And then I can only imagine that in motherhood, that's even more because it's not just the me and myself and my body and like my health, but it's also my family and like it's all these other buckets that are now that you have to do and you don't get more to go into the buckets, you still have the same amount to go in.

Lindsey Davis: Your bucket is going to empty a lot faster. And that's a limitation in itself you have to accept because especially in those early months, they do depend on you for every single need that they have. I mean they can breathe on their own, but you got to change their diaper to feed them to give them what you know they get liquid and why they choose to formula feed or breastfeed, which I've done both, first child I chose to breastfeed, second child I chose formula feeding because I that was a boundary I decided to set. I was like if I formula feed or my husband can take more apart in the feeding process and it will then give me a break, and I can take care of myself better. So finding those boundaries and being like, how can I care for myself and also take care of my child at the same time?

Erin Judge: Yeah. And there's no wrong way.

Lindsey Davis: There's no wrong way!

Erin Judge: Most people say there is a wrong way or people who've not gone through it!

Lindsey Davis: Yes, yeah, they probably haven’t.

Erin Judge: No shame in that, you don't know what you don't know, but at the same time, I think that's been stripped down a lot of like, motherhood looks different. And I think it does come back to resources too, because some of what you're saying is a little bit of a luxury that you have someone that's there to support you, like, some people don't have that and that means you have more buckets and less help fill in those buckets. So like, you might not be able to sleep when your baby sleeps, like you may have to work right away, or like, you may have to do something that most people don't have to do. Everyone's situation looks different and something we talked about with our group program, specifically, because people are coming together with their IBS, is you cannot compare to other people with your health, you can't compare to other people with your life, you know, you might be in the exact same situation on paper, but it's going to look so different based on support, like even when you were mentioning, you know, having people who, okay, you're my landing place, some people don't have that.

What you can't do is just compare yourself to Lindsey and say, oh, well, then that's not possible for me. Okay, well, what does that look like? What can I not control and like maybe what is in my control, and it might be just one small thing, but focusing on that still helps release some of that pressure, or finding the support, if that's through therapy, or other resources, social work, you know, anyone that can be there for you, which is so important. Taking it on yourself is not going to do any good.

So motherhood later, let's talk about what that looks like. You know, you’re past the initial ages, finding a little bit of like, rhythm, I guess, with your life, maybe having daycare and your kids are going into school now and there's things that are coming up, and I think there's a lot of this, and I've seen it play out because we work with a lot of mothers, specifically just parents. But there's this idea I think when people are going into having a child where they think like, this is temporary, then like, I'll get my life back or things will go back to normal, it doesn't always go to normal. I think it's so interesting how people get themselves in situations where it's like, well, that self care never came back or like it never adapted. And so talk about that, like adaptation, maybe differences between one and two, being someone who lives with IBS, you know, what has that looked like? And what are some things that you've learned?

Lindsey Davis: Adaptation, again, another skill that is something that is strengthened in motherhood. You're right in that there is this expectation of, yes, postpartum things are going to look crazy, but then it's going to be smooth sailing. Although it does get easier, physically, because they do, they are able to meet some of those needs, you know, like I make their meals but they can feed themselves. They're potty trained now, you know, they can do that. So some of that physical need is taken off your plate, but there are constantly curveballs being thrown to you, especially if you're a mother that's lived through the pandemic, let's just all raise our hands. Well, to everyone who's lived through the pandemic, everyone, but so many curveballs with kids being you know, at home learning and now we're working remote and how do you do both?

The biggest thing I learned from one, I will be very, very honest, self care taking care of myself in any way, shape, or form, I did not do with one. I mean, that baby came out and I was like, you are my world. I sacrifice myself for your good and I dismiss every single one of my needs for you. I want to love people and that's I do have that sort of bend, but with kid two, I saw how damaging that was to me, and how I ended up just in the ground, physically and emotionally dead. And so learning in each stage, how can I care for myself, it's not going to look like the ideal picture, we've got our ideal picture ready, you know, and that may come when they graduate from college, or from high school and go to college, we might get there eventually. But for about 18 years, we have to find those pockets of self care, and be okay with that changing in each season.

So I kind of have, you know, my wheelhouse of five to seven things that I know are really, really beneficial for my IBS management, and my mental health, those kind of coincide, or they absolutely coincide. In each phase, I'm likely not able to do all of them, but which ones can I do? And I engage in those if it's two or three, I engage in those three regularly. And then the next phase comes, those three might not be possible anymore but you know, others on that wheel that I have, are possible. So flexibility, again, knowing your baseline needs, and being okay with not engaging with all of them. But knowing that engaging in a few still matter!

Erin Judge: Absolutely. And if it's not active time with your kids, does that make you a bad mother?

Lindsey Davis: Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, hear me loud and clear! Because I think, you know, I already said therapy is one of the tools that I use, I go to therapy every week, and it's not remote, it is in person. You know, I work for Gutivate, so I work full time, so that therapy is done in the evening, when my kids are home. And so that means there are nights where I say okay, you know, Dad's gonna get you off the bus, Dad's gonna do dinner because mommy's got to go to therapy, and or even exercise now, trying to fit in movement. And if it doesn't happen in the morning, being okay with saying, I'm gonna go in the evening, even though that means being away from my kids for a chunk of time.

I am so passionate about this, because it is so hard. It's so hard. The second you get in that car, the guilt is on your shoulder like you're not spending time with them, they're feeling neglected. No, they're not. They're not! You are taking care of yourself so you can give more of yourself to them. Don't don't listen to the guilt. You're not a bad mom for taking time away from your kids to take care of yourself.

Erin Judge: Yeah, absolutely. It's a quality time, right, give more quality, which is work too, like everything, where it's like spending all of your time on one thing like, the quality diminishes. We as human beings can't do that, like we have to take steps back, we have to get back to ourselves and refill our buckets to then pour back out and a more high quality way. Were you going to add?

Lindsey Davis: Yes, sorry, I got really excited. Because this is something that, you know, I'm saying don't let the guilt bother you. I'm here to tell you, I struggle with it all the time, I am not saying that I just let the guilt roll off my shoulders. It is hard. So I have to actively teach talk to myself. One thing that has worked, or that is working is I have used that as an opportunity to teach my kids about self care. Because I know Erin like me and you, we are millennials right we have lived our life as these high achieving people pleasers and now we are you know, on tiktok and social media, you kind of see like the millennial generation has reached this point of like burnout, and now we are embracing self care. But I get to talk to my kids about that earlier now, you know, they might say Mommy, they don't know what therapy is, so sometimes I'll say Mommy's got to go to the doctor and they're like, why? Why do you have to go? Or why are you going to go to yoga? Why are you going to go to you know, wherever. Instead of immediately letting myself be hit with guilt I'll say you know what, this is a way mommy takes care of her body and that opens up the this door of communication for me to be like, how do you take care of your body? What do you do when you're tired? Oh, you take a nap. What do you do when your tummy hurts? What do you do? And they're young, you know, but it still opens that door for me to help guide them in taking care of themselves from a younger age so they don't reach 33 and are like what in the world is self care?

Erin Judge: They aren’t completely like disregarding what their body is saying, something we were not taught to do. And I think our generation for sure, it's like, we weren't taught to know what our body is communicating. I've learned more on TikTok about my body than I learned, like going through school as a dietitian, you know, it's like, it's wild, like, we just don't learn so much about our bodies and what things mean, even something we talk about often with clients is like, are you stressed? Are you hungry? Are you having symptoms or are you hungry? It's like trying to like navigate, what is that signal that I'm hearing? Am I full? Am I bloated? Am I anxious, like what's going on? And it's so fascinating, but learning how to hear and understand like, comes from those communications as a kid, which is so important!

Two more questions. So the first one on that same note, because I know you have these conversations with your kids, how do you talk about your IBS with your kids now that your oldest is old enough to understand, right? He's old enough to understand that you're in the bathroom longer, or like, maybe that you need to go and you were just there, how do you approach that conversation with your kids?

Lindsey Davis: I laughed, because I do have this conversation with my, almost six year old, because they follow you everywhere, right? They've been with me in the bathroom for a very long time. They're always there. If they want to have a deep heartfelt conversation, it's gonna be when you need to go to the bathroom. So the door for communication is there and they're very open about asking, so you won't have to be like, hey, let's sit down because Mommy wants to talk to you about her IBS, right? They're probably going to just ask why do you have to put your feet on this stool and I just straight up talk to them, I'll say you know, my tummy works a little bit differently than daddy's tummy or your tummy. And it sometimes doesn't go every day, and I have to really take care of it, like you take care of Maggie our cat or something. And so I kind of, I always bring it back to self care and I talk about it in a very, like, general, this is just how I operate and that's fine. Everyone else operates a different way, Mommy needs to do this, you don't and that's okay.

I am having the conversation of like, I would like to go to the bathroom by myself. I do need that alone time for it to be successful. So if you could just shut the door, everything would be a lot better. But it's kind of fun to talk about it with them, because kids, they just they like to talk about poop and going to the bathroom and all the things that are not necessarily quote unquote appropriate talk about, they talk about it all the time. So I just come to it with compassion.

Erin Judge: Yes, is so important. I mean, you and I both were diagnosed with IBS as kids and I very clearly remember, the embaressment and shame I felt because it's like, I am in pain or like, you know, for me, I dealt with constipation a a kid, it's like manual manipulation, you know, like trying to dig poop out and like, the things that like you would never want to tell parents, that's embarrassing. But if I would have heard my parents talking about their poop lives, like maybe I would have felt more saying, hey, that's not happening for me, or like, I'm struggling, like, I didn't know what wasn't normal until I'm in, you know, pain and being rushed to the hospital. And so it's like, you know, you don't understand and then there's even more shame on you because it's like, well, is this just me or like, you know, then you don't know how to approach it with other kids. So I think it's so important to have those conversations now, then you have to deal with, I'm sure your son might out you or like talk about you.

Lindsey Davis: Oh, for sure!

Erin Judge: You know, that self compassion that you've mentioned, as well as like, confidence in yourself. And I hear mom, you know, we hear moms, I don't know if you've heard this from some of your clients, but the whole like, well, I can't be gone from the house too long so then my kids have to miss out or we have to cancel plans, and they don't understand. And that's like a different level of guilt that is heartbreaking and you know firsthand, and I only know just from their stories, like they want to make their kids happy. They want to have that time. And so sometimes you do have to communicate that like, there are limits that you have and you know, that is so difficult. Have you ever had to do that, like cancel plans because of symptoms, or have you dealt with that just with conversations with other moms that you've worked with?

Lindsey Davis: Not specifically based on my IBS symptoms, this is a another topic we can hit another day, but I have had to cancel things related to mental health symptoms, depression and anxiety. Which does, they're like the buddy system with with IBS. And you're right there is this added level of guilt that comes because you feel like you're causing them to miss out on life. What I tried to do for myself, and what I would encourage listeners, and people who struggle with that to do is to one, try and give yourself some grace, if you can't have someone speak some love to you, but also know that you're showing them in that moment, you're being vulnerable, and saying Mommy has a limitation, right? And that can be something that's, again, embraced and honored as something that's okay to have, or it can be something that is fought against, and because I think it's so important to just come to it from this point of acceptance and like, this is a limitation that I have, because you never know what our kids are going to face and what limits they are going to develop as adolescents and adults themselves. And so if they have tangible experiences and memories that they can look back on and say, oh, my mom had a limitation and, and that's, it's totally fine. If they grow up with this, this knowledge that it's okay, and you care for yourself in those moments, they will do that for themselves. So you're not doing them a disservice, although it does feel like it in the moment, but if we think big picture, you're equipping them with the ability to accept their own limitations that they will inevitably have when they're adults.

Erin Judge: Yeah, and empathy, right, empathy and understanding that they may not have. I'm sure, it's not that first of like, you know, I was going to the park, and now I'm not, or we were gonna do this, and now we're not and like, you know, kids, they're developing and like, you can't take anything personal. And I've even learned that just from interacting with kids, I can only imagine what that's like having someone that is in your life at all times. Because like they're gonna embarrass you, they're gonna say things that are so hurtful that break your heart.

Lindsey Davis: That's not fair. You're the….Yeah, you know.

Erin Judge: But they don't know, I mean, so that they have to learn because if what they do know is like, you know, if I’m mean I get what I want, you know, that's not a good thing. And like, I think we think sometimes like, on the outside, like, oh, we would never do that. But then if you're in, it's like, well, you love this child, you want to know, happy, like, we hear it from moms so often where they're trying to push through, but then they have an accident and it's like, that's something that's like, you know, taking care of yourself is so important. And it's good to remember that like, taking care of yourself isn't always gonna look like what you want it to look like and it's not always going to give you everything. And that's a really difficult thing but it's a positive when you're sharing life with others, because you're teaching them empathy, you're teaching them understanding, and you're also learning yourself of like, where are my limits? What can I do? What am I capable of? There's probably some fear we have to overcome too. Some moms may need to actually get out and do the thing, you know, and that's big, we see that a lot with our clients, right? Of getting in the car and going for the drive, going on the trip, like taking those small steps. And that's what you do alongside the help of a support and what we are to our clients or your therapist can be or your doctor, whoever you know, in your life could be. But it looks different for each person. And so it's okay to be different, it's okay to have a different outcome, a different story and it's also okay to kind of experiment and play and try new things on and invite your kids into that, which I've seen you do so I wanted you to talk on that because I know that that's something you care about, because it is so important. And I always try to remember like, you know, as we're preparing for even the thought of potentially having a child one day…

Lindsey Davis: Think about thinking about having a child.

Erin Judge: Right? That's something I feel like millennials have done with like motherhood and parenthood is such a different topic than it was for the generation before us where it's like, there's nothing wrong with being a parent right away like you know, a young parent, there's nothing wrong with being a single parent right now. There's nothing wrong with like being a parent later in life. There's nothing wrong with not being a parent, and then unconventional parenting if you adopt versus have, you know, a biological child, like, there's no wrong way to be a parent, and it's okay to wait, and if you have IBS, like it's okay to want to figure out your symptoms beforehand, like, that's not a wrong thing. Yes, it might change and like it might differ, but like, it's okay to be prepared, it's okay to, you know, do the work, I think that you mentioned that, like your mental health, like your emotional health, like, it's probably a good thing to do that.

It's also fine to do it later, you know, it's like, kids are gonna figure it out with you like, it's fine. But there's no wrong way of doing it. And with IBS, like yes, there are more barriers, but it's not impossible to be a great mom, or, you know, a great dad or to have really incredible kids that experience life fully. And, you know, there's also like, there's so many ways you that we could go with this, like, yes, there could be a potential genetic component, like, you know, and I feel like, I don't want my child to have gut issues, I kind of feel that way as someone who had them as a kid, it's like, how do I make sure my child's gut microbiome is the best possible to go in with like my best gut microbiome, and that's okay, too. But also, if you didn't, or like, let's say you don't breastfeed, and like, we know, breastfeeding does help with the gut microbiome, like we know vaginal delivery helps with the gut microbiome. But that doesn't mean that if you need a c-section, or if you choose to formula feed, because there's these other buckets that need more from you, or like, there's other priorities that you need to be present, like, that's okay. Like there is other ways of going about it, like, you know, increasing fiber diversity young, if your child's picky finding ways to do that, like, there's so many different ways of like raising a human being and, you know, we can prepare, it might not go the way that we prepare, but the flexibility, that compassion, the kind of going with it and doing your best and being okay with what that looks like, is so valuable.

Lindsey Davis: Letting him be enough. Let that be enough, you know, not feel less than because.

Erin Judge: Yeah, and on that, I think, because we're having this conversation and like, you know, people might be like, yeah, Lindsey’s right, like, that's exactly what I should do! But you may turn to like your Facebook group, or your mom, and they may not be saying the same thing. And I think with anything with IBS, like if there are people speaking into you that are changing the way you think in a way that's not serving to you like, it is okay to cut them off. And like it is okay to find better friends. And like, yes, you might lose some of that support, but is it really support? I don't know, if you had to deal with that, if you want to leave us on that as we kind of close out our conversation.

Lindsey Davis: Some of some advice that I give to, soon to be parents or whatever, is, develop, try and develop and be confident in your mom voice. And I don't mean the mom voice you use when you are yelling or snapping at your children. The mom voice of this is what I've chosen, this is my choice in this scenario and I'm confident in that. And I say that as your mom's voice because you're going to be faced with so many different choices and you're right, in every Facebook group, Instagram post, there's gonna be another mom that's making a different choice, that's telling you her choice is better. And you are going to have conversations where you have different perspectives. And so develop your mom voice, be confident in the choices that you're making for your body, for your family and that will allow you to be in community with other people, but not feel less than. You can be confident in your choice, you know, mom, number two can be confident in her choice and they can be different choices, and you can coincide and coexist and do life together. But just be confident in the choices that you're making.

I totally agree with you, if there are mothers or women or whoever that are speaking negatively, or speaking in a condescending way that makes you feel less than, that makes you feel like you can't have your own independent choice in the matter, those are probably not friendships or relationships that will serve you and it's okay to put a boundary around that and look for those that do serve you.

Erin Judge: Absolutely. And it's okay for your kids to know that too because they need to learn that too right? It's okay for that to be with your IBS, like we talked about with health, like we may get a recommendation or like a way that you know, we say go about doing things. It may not look like that for you and that's okay. You have autonomy in your own life. And I don't think that that means that we have to be like well, I'm the best and like everyone else needs to, like, you know, leave and like, I'm not gonna listen, I think there's a way to be confident, have your own autonomy, but also be open to hearing what people have to say and like having good conversations, because you might learn something that you're like, you know what, I may want to adapt that into my life in a different way. But trying it on for yourself is so important, not being guilted or shamed, which is just big. And easier said than done! So it's also as everything in life, be flexible, have compassion, but also know that if you struggle with any and all of it like, it's okay to struggle, everyone struggles!

Lindsey Davis: You're in good company!

Erin Judge: Yeah, that's normal. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Lindsay, for coming on. And Lindsay is on our team, it's me and Lindsey at Gutivate, so if you are interested in working with Lindsay, if you're like, you know what I'm navigating motherhood with IBS and also this disordered eating history and like, I don't know what to do. We can definitely help! So there is a link for our console call if you want to talk or you can just reach out to us through Instagram to chat and happy to see if that would be a good fit or point you in the right direction. Lindsay, thank you for sharing!

Lindsey Davis: Thank you so much. This has been like the best part of my day! Do a consult call if you'd want to work with me because I'd be happy to talk with any of you. But thank you so much!