Season 3, Episode 5: How To Truly Support Someone Living With Chronic Illness

Welcome back to the Gut Show! I'm your host, Erin Judge and today's episode is one that I'm really excited about and hope that you get to connect with, because we have one of my favorite guests and dear Instagram friends, Christine Olivo. She is someone that I connected with early on in my own Instagram IBS community creation, and we've been able to kind of share communities and talk through some of the complexities of sharing good things about IBS online.

Today's episode is really unique because we're talking about how to support someone with IBS and how to not actually support someone with IBS, and this is one that I really want to hear your thoughts on. So as you listen to the episode, either you laugh, you cry, maybe you get frustrated, maybe you agree or you don't agree, I want you to come into The Gut Community on Facebook and share those thoughts with us. And then if you want to reach out to Christine our show notes, have all the ways that you can do that. So enjoy our conversation, enjoy the episode, and I look forward to connecting with you after!

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Erin Judge: Christine, thank you for being back on the show! I always love getting to chat with you, because we're on the same side of the team with like having IBS but also having like different insights into it and it's just always fun to get to chat and talk. So I'd love for you to introduce yourself, give an update of where you're at, what's going on, and whatever you want to share from even our last conversation.

Christine Olivo: Sure, thank you so much for having me again, I'm so honored, and I'm so excited to be here! I'm Christine, maybe some of you watching this know me, maybe you don't, I have an Instagram account called @myIBSlife. I have had irritable bowel syndrome since I was diagnosed officially in the spring of 2007. So it's been quite a while of dealing with this, I'm been through a lot and I've tried to channel all of that chaotic energy and pain and sadness and anxiety and everything that comes with this into humor. I've even said this in the last season, that's kind of just how I've always dealt with things in my life, is just trying to make it sarcastic and just trying to laugh at it instead of just like, constantly crying about it. So over there, I just make memes about like, pretty much all the things we go through as IBS patients, I try to make like funny reels and even on my stories, I kind of just talk about my day to day, every day is different. Some days, I feel great, I'm really energetic, I'm really happy, and other days, I'm really low. I'm really upset. I have cried on Instagram, it's so embarrassing, but like, I just try to keep it as real as I can. So yeah, that's pretty much what I do in this corner of the internet.

Erin Judge: And it's so important, I think, something that I hear and I don't do things through humor, and that's what I mean, like, we have different perspectives, which I like and it's important because we are all like, as human beings are different and we experience life differently. And I am never a sarcastic person I'm very, you know, kind of cut and dry, which is I'm in the health world. And, you know, for me, it's like, I can't make a joke sometimes about things I'm like, so you know, scientific. Something that we hear in our program, so we're working with women, and the more people I meet with IBS, the more that seeing different perspectives do mean so much to people who are living with it, because whenever you get on Instagram, and you see someone crying about their day, like, and you were just crying about your day, you know, it makes you feel like, you know, you're not alone in what you're going through. And when you see someone happy about their day, or you see someone you know, it's like you see these different perspectives and things, you see someone showing up and showing, you know, hey, this is what it actually looks like and not just like, I have IBS, but also this is how it impacts my life. And people see that and they really connect, and which is really important.

That kind of feeds into this idea of support and that's what I want us to talk about, is how to really support, how not to support, I think that's something that you know, those with IBS struggle to know how to ask for support, the struggle to know what they need until they get what they don't need and it feels like a slap in the face, which we're going to talk about what that looks like. And then people who maybe are seeing that, oh, my friend has IBS or my significant other has IBS, or you know, this person in my life, my family member has IBS and they don't know how to support either. And it's so such a fine line between truly supporting and not and so I want to talk about that of what maybe support has looked like for you and your journey and maybe how it's changed over time, especially as you built more of a community online.

Christine Olivo: Definitely. It's funny, because when you told me the topic, I feel like this is a topic that I can get like, I'm not gonna cry, I promise, but I do get emotional about this topic because I've been so lucky these past two and a half years to have @myibslife and to have found this community of people that do understand me and have made me feel confident in my condition now, but it has certainly not been that way. And it's actually hard for me to kind of remember how I used to feel but for you know, like, what, over 10 years, I did feel like really lonely in what I was going through and it really felt like I was the only one in my like, close circle of people that was like going through this.

Even my best friend in the entire world, her name is Sam, she has had IBS almost as long as I have but our IBS is very different in how we feel it and our symptoms. My IBS has a lot to do with my mental health, it makes me very anxious, I’m a very anxious person because of it, she is so not that way, she couldn't care at all if she feels sick, like, if she has to go to the bathroom somewhere, she just goes, like I'm so not like that I'm like, I gotta get home and then have like a panic attack. And so even though I had her and we could connect kind of on a, like, same level, like we were also very different, and that would make me feel very lonely as well.

I feel like a lot of questions I get asked on @myibslife is just like how you even go about telling your friends or your significant other or even like coworkers and stuff about this. And that has definitely just been part of my journey too, is learning how to have those conversations to better support yourself, and have other people around you be able to better support you as well. Definitely, in the beginning, it was hard for like a lot, I lost a lot of friends and now I feel like I just know how to have those conversations so that my friends don't feel like, I don't want to hang out with them or like alienating myself, but like, we can all kind of just like understand each other more, and they can help me and I can help them and all that great stuff. So it definitely has been a journey but it got easier with time and just learning more about myself and my body and how to communicate.

Erin Judge: Yes, absolutely and that's so important! I like that you brought that up of like learning how to communicate it. I think a lot of isolation comes from not sharing, right? There's some isolation that comes from sharing and being pushed down, which we'll talk about, and those experiences, and a lot of people get their first experiences with their doctor, right? Or a health professional, which can be really hard. And then it's hard to bring things up if you've been just completely knocked down from it. But also, you know, when we don't share what we're going through, it is easy to feel like no one else understands like, there's absolutely no one or when you share with maybe one friend and they don't understand, there's that belief that will no one else gets it, there's no way.

What are some things that you learned with sharing and talking about it that really worked or like maybe even some things that didn't work in different situations if you have any tips and things that you try that either just kind of faceplanted and the things that you tried that did end up being successful?

Christine Olivo: Sure. I mean, I think the biggest thing I've learned is like I always felt like, you know, I never wanted like we were kind of just saying like, it was hard for me to open up to people about it, I was like oh, they're not gonna understand or it's gross, it's embarrassing this and that, but people are a lot more empathetic than you would think. Yes, you will run into some bad apples that don't understand, don't want to understand, they want you to toughen up, whatever. Those are the people, you just try to have the least amount of communication with, you leave to the side of your life, but everyone else honestly, and especially these days, so many people do have some sort of digestive problem, like, people are much more understanding than you might think.

The other thing is going along with like, the embarrassing thing, I always just tell people, when you bring up these conversations, and you start communicating with people on like, what's going on with you, you can share as much as you want. You don't have to get into the nitty-gritty. Sometimes I think I'm probably one of those people that does but that's just my personality at this point is like, yeah, like I have explosive diarrhea, sorry, I can't come today. But you don't have to be that way! You can literally just sit down and have a conversation with your friends or your significant other and be like, listen, you know, I'm sorry I haven't been hanging out as much. I'm sorry I've been turning invitations down, it's not that I don't want to hang out, it's just I've been having a really tough time with my stomach. I've been having a lot of health issues. If you want to learn more about it, I'm more than welcome to tell you about it, but that's just like what's going on.

I feel like that's been the best thing is just showing the people that you care, and you're not just blowing them off, and like really ingraining in them like, I want to be your friend, I still want to be invited to things. I promise I'm not blowing you off, I'm just really sick and I just need time to like, get myself together. Hopefully the next time you ask, I'll be good to go. So I always say that, just like really drilling in them that you care and that goes with work too. I get that a lot, like how do I bring it up to my manager or my boss, that I can't come in. I again just say like, have that conversation and again, you don't have to overshare, but just like tell your boss like I promise I'm not just like skipping out on work. It's not that I don't want to work, I'm just like, really sick right now. and just like, constantly be in that communication of just showing how much you still care

Erin Judge: Yeah, that's awesome. I think there's always that fear that, oh, well, if I share, I'll get fired. Or if I share, you know, I'll be judged. Or if I share, like, my friends will just completely cut me out. And you're right, that it's a great way to see one who's on your side, but when you share with that kindness, it does open up the door to say, like, hey, I'm trying to meet you halfway here too, this is something that I'm working through and this is something that does impact my ability to show up as much as you know, I can, but I also am sharing that I want to do this with you, I want to have a relationship, or I want to have this job, I want to do a good job, which might open up the conversation to like, how can we make that work.

And I think in work settings, especially these days, where, you know, we've gone online, we've worked from home, like there's a lot of flexibility that we've been able to create, and not everyone will have that flexibility, but you never know like what your boss may be able to do for you like to help you, you know, work in a way that you're comfortable with, to make sure that you can show up to your job, but also take care of yourself and not be in constant anxiety at work because you're at the office and that's not a comfortable place for you at that time in your life.

Or, you know, your friends might be able to say, hey, like, well, what could we do? Like, is there something that would be more doable for you, like coming to your house or, you know, going to a specific type of restaurant or whatever it may be of being able to share that and not just say, you know, sorry, I just can't be your friend because I have gut issues. It's like, no, I want to be your friend, this is also just something that like I have to deal with and so how can we make that work more? You know, you never know what those conversations could open up to.

Christine Olivo: Definitely, absolutely.

Erin Judge: And they don't always work out, which is also hard. And you know, one thing that I mentioned before and is the doctor thing. I love good doctors, I am a champion of good doctors. I'm a health professional and so I get the back side of it, right? I know how much time people have, I know how stressed health professionals are, I get it. We don't have enough, especially gastroenterologist in the world. But also, you know, a lot of people's first experience with talking about their gut is with their family, or their doctor. And when you bring something up to your doctor and say, you know, I am having diarrhea every day, or I'm crying on the floor because I can't go to the bathroom or like, you know, it's like it won't come out or you know, it's like you're in so much pain. And it feels embarrassing, and you finally got the courage to say something, and to be kind of turned down, that can be such a big blow. So I'd love to hear your talk about that, I know that is something you've experienced too. That gets into you know, how we don't support people, the best way not to support those with IBS. I'd love to hear you talk about those experiences and how you dealt with them.

Christine Olivo: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think I even talked about it on the last season. But yeah, I feel like I've been way more open about my bad experiences with doctors and honestly, sometimes I feel like I poopoo on them too much. There are great doctors out there and I'm very thankful for them, but yeah, I've had a lot of bad experiences with them, especially in the beginning, when I was getting diagnosed, a lot of doctors invalidating me or just saying, you know, the classic “it’s all in your head”, someone said, I was just anorexic. Like, it was really, like horrible. I definitely hear that a lot in our community too just from other people DMing me and all I can say is you deserve better than that and just know that you deserve better than that.

If you are feeling like your healthcare professional is just blowing you off, they're not hearing you out, you don't have to be like confrontational with them, I don't think you should be. But one thing I even learned from Erin, you had a whole podcast last season how to like deal with that and I thought it was really good. Like first, you know, you just simply tell them like, hey, I just feel like you're not really listening to me. I want to re go over some of the things I said, if they're still like not getting there, you can move on to the next doctor. And as you should, you should always just keep advocating for yourself because you deserve to get the proper support from your health care team. You deserve to get the proper diagnosis, proper treatment. And especially when I first started in my IBS journey, I was really young so I didn't have that voice yet to do that for myself, but that's why if you are someone that's young and going through this, or if you're just someone that's just starting to go through this, it's all new, like, have someone with you like, whether it's a parent or your significant other, someone you trust that will speak up for you too, that has been really, like, good for me and my journey, and that's gotten me farther. Just always know that you deserve the best and don't, you know, take that from a doctor, if you feel like you're not being treated well.

Erin Judge: Yeah, absolutely. I think we forget sometimes that we have that power to, like you have the right to change healthcare providers. And not everyone has the ability, I mean, there's privilege and having options and not everyone has options. If you live, you know, in a small town, or, you know, maybe you have to drive a long way to even see a gastroenterologist or maybe your insurance only covers one. And, you know, all of that is stuff, we've talked about in a lot of these episodes, and it's just a frustrating piece that hopefully changes. I know that it feels like it's changing, but I don't know when we'll all get there. But being able to say, you know, they kind of work for you, like they're there to serve you. And yes, they only have 15 minutes, there are some strategies that we talked about often of you know what to do at those appointments, how to prepare for those appointments, like happy to share those with anyone if you want to message me, but if someone is tearing you down, especially a healthcare provider, and a parent as well, you know, if someone is tearing you down, especially early on, you're right, you deserve way better than that. And that doesn't mean that what you're experiencing every day is a joke, or you know, not real or invalid, just because one person thinks so. No one is living in your body like you are, it might not be exactly what you think. And I think that's okay to say that, like, it might not be what you think it is. But if someone's invalidating your experience, and not willing to like help you kind of put those pieces together, like that's what the health professional should be doing. If all they're saying is like, no, you're wrong, then that's not actually good care.

It's very hard to do so you may not do it, well, you may go to your car and cry, and then call them later or send an email, you know, it's like, it may not look exactly like, you know, sticking up for yourself in the middle of that appointment. I even can't do that sometimes, because you know, my emotions are, you know, you feel embarrassed, and you almost freeze, but you know, you do have that right to do that at whatever point that you need to. And so we know that, you know, tearing someone down or invalidating them or telling them that they're wrong, is not a way to support, but I want to talk about some other ways. So thinking about your story and experiences that you've had, or even what you've seen from your community, what are some things you've seen where people maybe have tried to be supportive? Or maybe even blatantly not, but it just does not line up?

Christine Olivo: Sure. That's a good question. I feel like the one thing that comes to mind, I feel like dating has always just been like, really hard and having like a romantic relationship, it always gets awkward there, like, there's a lot in that situation. And the one that comes to mind that I know I've talked about a lot, even on my own stuff. My fiance Jay, he is an angel for the most part. He tries to make me feel as comfortable as possible, especially at like, his side of the family events. This isn't so much an issue anymore, because I've been around long enough, but especially in the beginning, no one on his side of the family really understood why I wouldn't eat at certain family events, like they would make dinner and I like sit there with an empty dinner plate. So he would try to support me by you know, trying to tell everyone like, why was eating like in front of me though, and like, be like, oh my gosh, she just has stomach issues, and just make it worse. It's just like bringing a bigger spotlight onto me and stuff like that. So yeah, I feel like, within my romantic relationship, there's like some things like that, within our community online, I'm hoping this doesn't come off the wrong way, but I've had some instances where there's almost like a competition of like, who is more sick. And there's been a few times, it doesn't happen a lot, but there's been a few times I've gotten some like DMs that have come from someone and they'd be like, I came across your page, thank you for what you do and I have IBD so like I understand what you're going through, even though mine's like so much worse and like it's just like, I've seen that a few times and that always misses the mark, in my opinion. I don't know if you've experienced any of that Erin, but to me this stuff should never be like a competition of who's more sick, that doesn't seem like a fun prize to even win, but yeah, like there's been instances of that. And those are probably like, the main things that come to mind.

Erin Judge: Absolutely, I do see that, I don't get that as much, because I'm very vocal about you know, my IBS isn't as severe as a lot of people's, and I'm aware of that. As a health professional, you know, I'm not coming in as, well I have IBS so I'm going to tell you everything that I do, like I'm coming in from IBS, so I've experienced some of what you've experienced and I can relate on some level, I also have this experience in training where, you know, I want to treat you like, I don't want to come in as just like, you know, a coach of my own experience, because that isn't valid either. So that's also something to remember is like, you know, when we're looking at health professionals, and coaching and all of that, like you have to be careful, because every person's experience is different and what each person will react to and respond to is so different. So just following people to see what like, what all is Christine doing, I'm going to do everything like that, and if it doesn't work for me, then, you know, it must never work, or you know, that that kind of thinking doesn't work. But I do see a lot of competition over like, you know, how restrictive diets can be, or like, I'm gonna eliminate all of these things, or, you know, that kind of stuff and there is a weird competition that happens.

I've seen how it impacts even like my clients, like this person told me, I should eliminate all of these things and it's just like, I think there's this idea of I'm trying to be helpful, but I'm actually doing harm in my health, because I'm telling people to do something that I'm doing, because it feels like I've figured it out and there's like a little superiority there, it is a very fine line. Yeah, I have seen that. And it's like, it's not that it's degrading every time, those types of comments where it's like, well, I'm worse than you so there's always that feeling of like, you're invalid, which you should never do to anybody. But then also the well, like, you should do this and this and this and this is like kind of the unsolicited advice, that competition of well, I am doing, you know, no carbohydrates versus low FODMAP. But you know, it's like that kind of competition doesn't actually support because it's not empowering. It feels almost like, like you have to join in the competition. So yeah, I've seen that a lot.

Christine Olivo: Yeah, no, that's actually really interesting, because that's definitely a part of it, too. I definitely have seen, either in my own DMS, or even like, in my comments, or just on other people's posts to people. Again I feel like everyone, like their intentions are good and I think everyone gets very passionate in our communities, especially when they find something that works for them because they're like, this one thing, or these few things, they helped me and I want it to help you and like, and then if you're like, well, I already tried that and it didn't work for me, sometimes people can be like, well, then you didn't do it right. It's like, yeah, no, that's not true exactly, so yeah, that's a very good point.

Erin Judge: Yeah. And you brought up something too that it's kind of another little, it's almost like a sneaky non-supportive thing that people do, and it is placing blame on the person who is dealing with the condition. And I think we see this in mental health, we see this in physical health, where there's this idea that because there are strategies that might work, and I see this from health professionals, it's something I try not to do myself and and am trying to be really cautious of, but because there's the low FODMAP diet, because there are medications, because there are stress management practices, you know, it's like, well, if you don't do everything perfect according to these things, like, then it's your fault. Like that's what people are saying is that, well, if you eat your trigger, and you talk about this a lot, it's like, well, if you go eat the thing that you know, causes your symptoms, like it's all your fault. And sometimes that comes across in some of a well meaning way, I think people are trying to say like, but you know what you should do and if you do it you'll feel better, which might be true. But then there's also the backhand of it that basically says, well, your condition is your fault and if you're not managing it like that's on you, and like you, you know, that's not a good thing, because we know with IBS, like that's not true, there are layers and pieces, there are some that are in your control, but it's also not your fault that your gut can't handle those things. And there's also things that are completely out of your control that can impact you that wouldn't normally impact you and hearing that just makes it feel like oh I'm never doing enough and like why should I bring it up? Why should I talk about it? Why should anyone care about me? Like there's a spiral, do you experience that pretty often?

Christine Olivo: Absolutely. And I'm like sitting here laughing because I literally did this yesterday, or like two days ago, like I had a day where I ate everything I shouldn't have. And then I literally came on Instagram and I'm like, hey guys, I ate everything I wasn't supposed to and I have a stomachache and I feel like I can't even sit here and complain about it. And like, I still had people messaging me like, you can totally complain about that. But like, yeah, I definitely get in my own head about that. And like, it's even funnier, I don't know if this little off topic but like, I get asked a lot of like, can you post what you eat a day. And I avoid that like the plague. I am, like, not a good role model of what to eat or what not to eat but like, also, I've just become so scared of posting what I do eat, because I've gotten a lot of criticism for like, people be like, well, no wonder you feel like crap, like, you ate that yesterday. And it's just, it has made me like spiral in my own mind of like, okay, I'm doing this to myself, my condition is my fault, because I'm just doing it to myself, like you said, I'm not managing it well. So, yeah, that definitely happens and I definitely showcase it to the world too.

Erin Judge: Which idea is okay, like, you can do that for yourself. I think it's the who has permission to like, say that, right? And we say, I mean, I say things. it's like, you don't go sit on the toilet, and you're constipated and you're wondering why you're so constipated but you're refusing to go to the toilet, you know, it's like, they is those comments, and that's that line I mentioned of like, well, I don't ever want to, like, make someone feel like it's their fault you know, and that's really hard. But like sending someone a message, or even telling your friend like, hey, are you sure, you're like, why are you eating that it's like, you're literally saying that they don't deserve because of IBS, like, because of their mental health condition, because of the disability, because of whatever is in their life, that they don't deserve to experience parts of life, because that thing has to hold them back. And I think that that's something you don't realize that you may be saying to someone, and they can like, you can say that, like I can say, you know, hey, onions make me bloated and give me gas, which is true, onions trigger my symptoms, and most of the time, I avoid onions. Sometimes I eat onions, because they taste really good. Or sometimes, you know, I order some meals that have onions in them and it's available and it's what I have and I'm making the choice to eat the onions and I'm bloated because of it. And I know that I'm bloated because of it. I also deserved to have that choice to eat that convenient thing or have that flavor that I wanted and got to choose. And if I didn't allow or give you permission to come in and tell me like, hey, if you stopped doing that you'd feel better, you know, like that doesn't come across well.

And I think there's a difference between accountability from people that you have invited in, like maybe Jay. So if let's say you decided like, okay, we're gonna travel and I really want to feel good and so hey, like, I know that I probably only need to drink one alcoholic drink or whatever it may be, you know, it's a very small thing. And so then you ask him, like, hey, can you help hold me accountable to this, because this is really important and this is the reason why I want to do it. If he came in to say, well, okay, Christine, you have one drink, like, it's probably enough, like, remember, this is your goal. You invited him in to say that, so that's okay. Where it's not supportive as if someone came in to say, like, Christine, like, you know, you shouldn't be drinking alcohol, you're gonna feel bad. It's like, well, I didn't ask you to tell me that, and again, that is such a fine line that I think it's always well meaning, but at the same time, it's just, it's not supportive. And it's something that as someone who's you know, living with IBS, like it's something that you can also see and bring out and say, like, hey, I appreciate you, like, wanting to help me feel better. I also didn't ask for that, and I deserve to get to make some choices. And you know, it's not my fault that I have IBS, and that maybe my body responds differently when I make that choice, but, you know, I just that's a boundary.

Christine Olivo: I think there's like a whole underlying theme to that of just like, unsolicited comments or advice, not just from even people in our community, but like, just from everyone. You know, I think that's something we all experience when we have these issues. It's like anytime you go anywhere, you know, everyone in your family is trying to give you advice, everyone, like your friends are trying to give you advice, your significant others trying to give you advice and I know that there have been times where, most of the time I put on a smile, and I'm like, yeah, you know, like, whatever, just like let them tell it to me. And then there are other times it really pisses me off. Sometimes it's like, I don't want to say it's stupid, but like, they think they're giving me groundbreaking advice and I'm like, yeah, I went to the doctor, like I did good. Like, yeah, thank you for suggesting I go to the doctor.

Actually, that's something that Jay and I have had to work on because from his point of view, too, it's really hard for him every day to hear me complain about being in pain and to watch me be in pain. I get that on his side he feels really helpless, and he wants to help. But we've had to have a conversation of like, there are times I will ask for his advice on things like, you know, what do you think if I did this, or if I did this treatment or something? That's when there's a conversation for him to be like, yes or no. But there's also times where I've told him, I'm about to complain and I just want you to sit there and listen and tell me that sucks. I don't want any further, like advice, or suggestions, I’m not in that headspace. So, yeah, you kind of have to have that conversation with people to just being like, hey, I'm not looking for advice, I just want to vent about this real quick.

Erin Judge: Yeah, yeah, that's really good. And, you know, putting yourself in their shoes, most of the time, people who do that do mean well, right? They love you and I get into this, because, I know some things and so it's like, you know, I want to ask this question to like, oh, well, you know, if you're hurting, like, you know, is this going on? Is this going on? And you have to sometimes step back and like, I care, and that's why I'm saying it, but at the same time, if the person that I'm caring about like, it's like love languages, right? Like, if they're not asking to be cared for in that way, then it's actually doing harm, and so truly caring is asking, like, hey, how can I support you? How can I care about you? Or I want to see you get better, you know, and I want to help, what would that look like? Are you okay with that? Do you want me to help? Do you want my advice? Do you want my opinions?

And if someone doesn't, you know, being supportive, in some situations, maybe even if you do know, if you maybe see the one thing they're doing that would change, like, if they don't want to hear it, you know, then the best thing that you can do to support is, do what they need, take the step back, listen, and you never know, maybe that would open up again, because you've developed that trust that you can share something with them.

I think on social media, it's just it's so difficult, because I think people, they do want to help but also just want to share and like, you know, want to interject and make comments without thinking about it because you don't have that person to person interaction, and so that can be kind of tricky. So it's always thinking about how would I feel if I heard that? And I've learned a lot of this, you know, again, becuase like my IBS, it wasn't as severe. And I had a doctor recently, who I do respect, as a doctor told me like, oh, are you sure that you had IBS? Which was so invalidating! Whereas like, I mean, my life was different now, like, I am literally dietitian that works to help people manage it. Yes, it doesn't look the same as it did, but it's like, well, you know, you're invalidating those years and years of like, pain and memories and memories lost and, you know, all the things that I went through as a child, because it was so long ago.

But as an adult, like, my life does look different now than a lot of people that I work with, and a lot of people that I kind of interact with. And it can be, I think, easy to also brush over their experience, because what I deal with isn't as severe, and I might be kind of going on a little bit of a rabbit trail with my mind. But, you know, it's like the that, like, I fall into this. And I think it's something that we can think about as supporters, even in the community of just because maybe I haven't experienced the intense nausea, right, that someone might experience or just because I don't have anxiety traveling, it doesn't mean that the person next to me doesn't have anxiety traveling, or it doesn't mean that I know what they're going through, just because I've experienced parts of it. Like, you know, being curious I think is a way of being supportive. And I don't know your thoughts are on that, like that idea of like, only seeing things through your own lens and that can actually harm in a way.

Christine Olivo: Absolutely. No, yeah, I've seen that a lot and I even went live like kind of recently and I kind of saw that happening in the comments. The one thing I just always like say is it's important to remember with IBS and like, honestly, all like kind of gut issues is like, there's no one cure fits all, for all of us. Like we've said a million times, everyone's so different, and what helps me might not help you. And that doesn't mean, again that you did it wrong, or like, you're stupid, or like, you know whatever. But yeah, I've seen that, and it's just like you said, it's important to keep in mind that, you know, just because what works for me doesn't work for them, like it doesn't mean you get to invalidate that person's, like, what they're going through, what they're feeling, their symptoms, or anything. It's just, we're all different and we're all gonna respond to different things. And so, yeah, I totally understand that.

Erin Judge: Yeah, yeah. And part of that is knowing to, what you need. So we kind of talked about, some things may not feel supportive, it might feel supportive, that can change day to day, and sometimes we don't know that until you get the comment, right? It's like you don't realize that like, oh, unsolicited advice is not helpful for me until you get the person that's sliding in and telling you what to do. So how did you learn how to kind of learn yourself, figure out what you need, and then be able to have those conversations? Because you're marrying Jay, so you guys had some of those rocky moments, that's a good example of like, you have good friends that I'm sure you had not so great interactions with at, you know, certain times that you've been able to save those relationships and, and move them forward and figure out you know, how to communicate that. So I'd love for you to speak on that of how you began to learn that and how you handled when you began to figure out that, okay, these certain things really are not helping me without just getting mad. What do you do after you get mad?

Christine Olivo: Yeah, that's actually a really great question. I feel like, it's been just a long time of learning about those things, and honestly, I probably feel like I haven't even gotten, like a good handle on that until, I started @myibslife. I mean, to be honest, I feel like, for years, I really just avoided people that made me feel like crap about what I was going through, like, if people were invalidating me, or making me feel, horrible, I would just kind of silently cut them off as friends or whatever, I just didn't surround myself in that.

Erin Judge: Which is okay to do!

Christine Olivo: Absolutely, and I kind of encourage that if you do have people in your life that are like that. You don't have to make it a big dramatic thing, just like, kind of ghost them a little bit until they're out of your life. I will say, probably one of the harder people that has taken a while to have like, proper support and communication from is my dad, and this is something I haven't even really talked about, because I feel guilty for talking about my dad, but I think we've gotten to a place that we're like, pretty good now. There was a long time where like, my dad is someone where like, even he’s sick, like he's just like a go getter, like, he doesn't care, nothing stops him. So when he had a child that had these gut issues that kept her from going to school and going to sports and like doing all these things like it was just, I'm lazy. You're lazy. You're being lazy. And that has affected me until today. Like if anyone calls me lazy, it like really triggers me, I've learned early on that I didn't like that and I would honestly just like stop talking to my dad, I stopped telling him I felt sick, I just stopped telling him I went to I didn't go to school that day. It wasn't until I think I like matured that I was able to have like harder conversations with him and just be able to explain like what IBS is and how it affects me and how I'm not lazy, it's just like on days I can't do certain things, whatever.

And then I would say honestly, it wasn't until @myibslife when I started getting an influx of, like, unsolicited comments and advice, um, that I really started to learn of what really made me mad and I've never, I hope I've never blown up on anyone. I usually just try to like, give that person the benefit of the doubt and I’ll even message them back and be like, hey, I'm sure you had really good intentions with this message, but you need to be more careful if you're sending these messages to other people who might take it a different way or might really get affected by this. Or sometimes I'll just ignore it. Um, but yeah, I feel like I've just have really learned from having @myibslife like what really bothers me and just like, ignore it, or just like kind of not deal with those people because they're not worth stressing over and feeling horrible over.

Erin Judge: Yes, absolutely! And I like that you brought up the family piece because that is something that people experience and you know, especially our generation, there's generational things where, you know, generational mindsets, and I think that's changing as our generations raising human beings, you know, I hope, I think there's probably some other not so great things that are weaved in there, but the conversations around illness and even mental health, I think IBS, like IBS is not a mental health condition, right? It's not just a psychosocial condition that some people may claim it is like, that's 10 years ago thinking, that's not what we know today, we know the very real causes, we know some things that are actually going on in the gut. We don't have a cure, but we know at least the things that are happening and so we know that it's not just a mental health piece, but I do think there is an overlap between digestive disorders anyways, where there's not this clear, easy diagnosis or treatment and mental health conditions because it's a daily thing you have to live with.

And it's not something everyone's just gonna see on the outside and what they see may not be what's truly going on. What they may see as laziness, what they may see is, oh, you're not trying, what they may see is like, oh, you're kind of like quiet or, you know, standoffish like, but that's not really the case. Or you're flaky right? You see that with a lot of IBS, you're always late, you're flaky, you don't show up, or you just leave, and people can't understand what they haven't walked through and I think the generation above us, never addressed that and didn't know how to handle that, and nourish or nurture that very well, which led to a lot of bad experiences with family members. And it can be so hard, even when they've lived with you and seen it over and over again, to bring that up.

I experienced that as a kid I remember early elementary school and I haven't really talked about this as much because it's so it's still a memory I'm like digging into is there some of that memory that I just, I don't fully remember with my childhood, but I would like poop my pants and it had something, I think with like my muscle, that pelvic floor muscles like, where I'd be overly constipated, and now that I know things and trying to like figure out what was going on. But that led to some of my diagnosis because it was, you know, that would happen and I'd also be in like, really intense pain from not going to the bathroom. And, you know, so that I was going in and out of all these tests. And I remember I would get punished, like I would get in trouble for like pooping my pants at school, you know. And looking back, it's like, my mom, I mean, my family's incredible, my dad actually had chronic illness, and that was something we never talked about and I think that was a big issue of it, too, is like that kind of hidden stigma. And I take that into a lot of like, my empathy now with clients like seeing how my dad lived with HIV AIDS, so it's like very, like, not talked about and he had cancers, he had a colostomy bag at one point, like we dealt with all of that, but here I am this young kid, you know, Dad's dealing with this, probably sparked a lot of it. I'm pooping my pants at school, like, I don't mean to, like I never intended to and then I get in trouble for it and I was getting punished and then I also feel embarrassed.

And, you know, that led me to having this like extreme fear of like public restrooms, and you know, all these things that could have been undone. And even though my mom is like a phenomenal person, like, I have so much respect for her, now she's so compassionate, like, there were moments where I kind of resented that and felt like, you know, I wasn't cared about or loved and, you know, that had such an impact on my mental health as a young child, and, you know, I now wish it's like, oh, I wish that like the doctors I was seeing, like, I wish I had mental health help like to be able to talk about that and, you know, that support, or I wish my doctor would have like, stood up for me too, like, you know, this is why this is happening. And once we finally figured it out, like it did get better, my mom, thankfully did listen and understand like, okay, something's wrong. But there was also this like, misconception that I had control over it, and I never did. And that takes a lot to undo. And yeah, it's an interesting thing. I think if someone, I hear it all the time, like clients, like they have straining relationships with their family members, and like, you know, some don't want to ever bring it up, or they try and they get shut down. It’s like, do I continue trying with this family member or not? And I think there's grace because people don't understand what they haven't been through. But also like, you kind of have to talk about it, which is where therapy helps!

Christine Olivo: Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, those conversations are really hard, especially when it is family, like you said it causes a lot of friction and it’s friction you don't want to cause but they're also the people you're around the most and so you want them to understand you and support you the most so yes, really difficult and honestly like, we both just said, I think it just takes time sometimes to build that foundation for like a better understanding for each other.

Erin Judge: Yeah, yeah. And people can’t go undo what they did, too. I think that's something that's hard to remember. And I see that a lot, even in our community too, like, yes, you need to set boundaries. And like 100%, if someone's not supporting you, there may be a period of life that even a family member is like held to the distance and like, your mental health, that matters more than anything else, and so if you need that space, like, it is okay to take that space. I personally don't think it's okay to fully isolate yourself, I think you need to find community, because if you push everyone aside, you are alone and we can't do life alone. Like, it's just not, it's not possible. We also can't do life with crappy people. And it’s hard finding who those friends are, and all of that, but it's also good to remember as you are healing from that, and maybe working through that. And that's why I love mental health professionals of like, it's not your fault that you went through that with a family member, like that doesn't mean that you are broken, or that something's wrong with you. And getting support doesn't mean that something's wrong with you, it means you went through something that is tough to work through and figure out and like having someone help you do that is so valuable.

But part of that is realizing that, you know, your dad can't go and undo everything he did, you can have conversations that can help him see your side of it and like, you know, there might be an apology, or not, my mom, like we never, I never got there as I didn't need it at the end of the day, when I began to actually see her perspective and, you know, put myself in her shoes, I didn't need that reconciliation. But some people do need that and that's possible, but you're not going to be able to undo everything that people have done and so that's where I think taking care of yourself is important too, recognizing that it's not your fault that that was put on you and it's also not your fault that like do you need support, but then it's also important to get the support, which is that kind of fine line that we talked about earlier.

Christine Olivo: Yeah, definitely. And I think that's even, like, even when I was thinking about this topic, you know, when you think about support, you obviously automatically think about, like outside support. But one thing I've really been learning is like, the self support that I totally lack myself, and how important that is when you are like living with these conditions, because at the end of the day, like yes, I hope you all have outside support, whether it's like your mom, your significant other, your friends, but at the end of the day, you are truly the only one that has your back, knows what you're feeling, knows what you need. And like, you need to like, as you know, cliche, like you do need to love yourself and hear yourself and understand yourself to like really make it through this and find the proper outside support as well.

Erin Judge: Yeah, oh, absolutely. Yeah, I like to always talk about like, being on your body's team of like, you're either against your body or with your body. And when everyone has been against you or, you know, experiences have disconnected you from yourself, which happens with IBS, for sure, because it's like the things that should be happening without problem aren't happening. Tests are normal, you know, it's like there's literally all these signals from the world that like things should be fine, but they're really not fine, you separate where it's like, well, it's me against my gut, right? And we can make all the jokes about it, but at the same time, it's like well, at the end of the day, like your gut is part of you and so if you're against yourself, you're never supported, right and like being on your same team like it doesn't mean that you love your body, it doesn't mean that you are happy with the gut that you have, it doesn't mean that your gut is like your best friend in the whole world and things are fine and rosy, it may mean that there's a lot of tension but there's such a difference in like fighting against yourself versus tuning in like okay, something's going on, like I get it, I hear you, but like what is happening and like really getting on the same team. It's something we teach in our programs. I think that also then sparks the, you're able to advocate, you're like nope, no, no, I'm in my body, you can't fight me because I'm on the same team as myself. You might be right yeah, my guts a mess, but like, you can't say that about me because this is my gut. You know, it's like there's such a difference in that mind shift and then you know that is really important, o it's good that you brought that up.

Christine Olivo: Yeah, and I went through the Master Method when it like pretty much first came out and everything and that's actually when I found out how disconnected I am from my own body because I really like learned that I view my stomach as an outside enemy. I feel like it's like someone stands next to me and just like is giving me the finger all day. Like, that's how I truly have felt about my stomach, and I've had to, like, slowly relearn that, like, no, this is me. As much as I don't like it, I do have to put effort into it like any other relationship, like into like myself and like trying to make those connections.

Erin Judge: Yeah, it's so important and not easy, not easy at all. It's not meant to be easy and that's where I say like getting that support can be helpful, like, not the support of, you know, go love yourself. Like, if you get that support, and no mental health professional is the same, no friend is the same. You know, it's like, you have to be careful of what people are saying, because that can actually be worse than that. But if there is like, a huge disconnect, like finding support for people that help people with chronic illness or conditions, and to really talk through that and work through that, like how do you listen to the body that you feel like has tortured you? Or how do you connect to yourself when that's a coping mechanism, right? Like, it's a part of trying to feel secure and protected and like you're safeguarding your mind and your anxiety by disconnecting from what you're feeling and that can lead to issues like you're protecting yourself against listening to hunger and fullness, because if you eat like, you know that you're gonna have symptoms, it's like, there are some very real things that come out of that. And it's not easy. And something that our members have to think about a lot is, if that feels impossible, that they need support, and they need grace, of like moving slow, because it doesn't have to happen overnight, and you're not going to get there overnight. And it's easier for some than it is others so you also can't compare of where Christine is or where I am with how I connect to my body, because it's just not the same for everybody, because we all have different paths and experiences and being on the same team as a gut that is screaming at you every day, it is very hard to do.

Christine Olivo: Yes, absolutely. It really is.

Erin Judge: And sometimes it looks like yelling at each other, you know, it's like, that's relationships! Well, thank you so much for sharing some of your insights. I know this is like a conversation that can go on forever in our community. And so if anyone listening wants to connect, Christine's community is phenomenal, @myibslife and be thoughtful of what you message, like the takeaway, but also don't be afraid to share what you're going through, because you never know what community you can build. And, you know, our communities are here to help with different perspectives. There's humor, there's science, and there's a lot of sides to it, which is perfect.

Christine Olivo: Yes, thank you so much for having me on! And everyone out there that's listening, you deserve the proper support from everyone around you. And like we said, if there are people in your life that aren't giving that to you, you deserve to get rid of those people too. Thank you so much for having me Erin!